Omaha Eppley Airfield - DISCUSSION

[Mr.Nuke]

I think the times hurt, a midnight arrival was terrible in Omaha, should have been 10pm arrive to Omaha.

That is likely a non-starter. As it is currently blocked right now, that would require leaving at about 5 p.m, not only tying up a plane on this route for 14 and a half hours, but also likely cutting a potential leg for that the plane is currently doing from somewhere to SFO before.

With that current schedule yeah a midnight arrival is late in Omaha, although for body purposes it is technically 10 p.m. Pacific for most of the people on that flight. Like I said, they're also almost undoubtedly getting extra turn in SFO as well and the plane is obviously getting back early to SFO to operated a mid/late morning departure.

Shows coming back in April for the time being.

Hopefully it comes back, yields for the first 3 months this year were about 60%.

I'm pretty sure they structured it to capture business travelers making short trips. I've even thought about doing one-day trips. In my experience, the nonstop flights have consistently been full, and I haven't been able to fly on them.

It was also at least partially about parking a plane at Eppley overnight given the choice to resume it on a significantly larger plane than the route commanded from a demand perspective.

[Mr.Nuke]

So south end is for departures and the north end is for arrivals.

That isn't what the two drawings depict to me at all, but to each their own.

[Bob from Omaha]

So south end is for departures and the north end is for arrivals.

That isn't what the two drawings depict to me at all, but to each their own.

I was saying that by implication the signs on the south end say Security Checkpoint and on the north end say baggage claim. But of course to each their own. It's a free country. You want to drop off a departing passenger in the middle of a crowd at bag carousels, go for it.

[Bob from Omaha]

This canopy is so disappointing. I was thinking “Grand Rapids, but more architecturally interesting.”

I gotta say I think the Grand Rapids airport is pretty nice. Their canopy has a wave to it and the architecture is, in my opinion, nice.

[Mr.Nuke]

That was my guess for the lack of divided driveways. It’s a format used at some medium-sized California airports like Oakland, San Jose, Long Beach, and Ontario. Terminal 2 at Minneapolis, and Dallas-Love do this too.

A straight split on arrivals and departures on the same road make some sense particularly if you have a single level ticketing and baggage claim as eppley does currently. I can't find it, and this is probably going back 10 years still in the masterplan state before anything was actually planned, but at one point I think Eppley was talking about having all of the ticketing and baggage claims still on the first level but all of the ticketing on one side and all of the baggage claims on the other. That setup would lend to a half/half road.

It can also be incredibly inefficient for large portions of the day. Eppley didn't have an arrival until 9 a.m. today, but already had 15 departures. A similar situation will happen tonight in reverse there are going to be the wave of evening arrivals after the last evening departures. Thus for fairly large portions of the operational day at the airport it isn't all that efficient of a way of doing things.

Again though, from those conceptual drawings, if they have any accuracy, it doesn't appear that is what they're doing. And quite frankly it wouldn't make sense not to do it that way given what we know about the planned interior layout of the airport.

I was saying that by implication the signs on the south end say Security Checkpoint and on the north end say baggage claim. But of course to each their own.

I see how you came to that conclusion based on your image comparison. The problem is you aren't comparing the same spot though. I'll try and post something longer this afternoon or tonight.

[Mjs5050ss]

I like the canopy. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Nobody is looking around admiring the aesthetics of the airport when dropping off or picking up. Everyone is in a rush at that time. If it helps keep the rain off people, great! The only thing people see when driving along Abbott is the parking garages. If they want to spend the money to spruce up the old garage I'd be for that.

As long as the flow and amenities improve with the new terminal, I will be happy.

[TransitOriented]

This canopy is so disappointing. I was thinking “Grand Rapids, but more architecturally interesting.”

I gotta say I think the Grand Rapids airport is pretty nice. Their canopy has a wave to it and the architecture is, in my opinion, nice.

Agreed

[Mr.Nuke]

Looks like Saturday only 12:30 p.m. departure 4:40 p.m. arrival @ FLL, the opposite direction is 1:55 to 4:40 p.m. Starts 1/13 and BNA resumes the same day as well.

[Bob from Omaha]

I see how you came to that conclusion based on your image comparison. The problem is you aren't comparing the same spot though. I'll try and post something longer this afternoon or tonight.

It's not about the exact spot. On the south end the signs say Security, on the north they say Baggage Claim. I doubt there will be police enforcing some sort of policy but it makes sense to try to split the traffic. There are other airports that don't have upper and lower roads that do similar things. For what it's worth at the Detroit airport there are two levels and more often than not when I arrive and don't have checked bags I arrange to be picked up on the departure level. At the arrivals level it can be a zoo with four lanes packed with cars while departures, depending on the time and number of departures, is pretty empty.

As always, we don't know much.

[daveoma]

For what it's worth, the plane that I took to Omaha from Las Vegas (arrived 2:00 am on Thursday morning) was about 75% full as was the plane I took back to Vegas (left 6:15 pm on Tuesday July 4th).

[SkyWarrior55]

Amazon cut ties with Silver Airways. Affects Midwest cities including OMA.

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/amazo ... er-airways

[Bearcat06]

Amazon cut ties with Silver Airways. Affects Midwest cities including OMA.

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/amazo ... er-airways

There was a mention later in the article that Sun Country is going to start doing cargo hauls for Amazon (amongst other carriers) in the 4th quarter of 2023. It also mentioned Amazon going to an 8 region model for shipping/transport. I wonder if Sun Country may be hauling some stuff from Minneapolis to Omaha then, if they have a big warehouse there. Then again, I don't believe Sun Country was flying every day between OMA and MSP so maybe it's not really a factor at all.

[nativeomahan]

I’m flying through the PVR aeropuerto again today. It has 20 gates, and is a hub for no airlines (sound familiar?). Yet it has added yet another Starbucks with general public access, has too many bars to count, has about a half dozen franchise restaurants (Sbarro, Subway, Bubba Gump, Famous Famiglia, Johnny Rockets, Carl’s Jr., Subway and now a Guy Fieri bar and restaurant), plus some local spots. Add to that maybe 30 other shops selling items other than food.
One really must ask why the food selection is so abysmal in Omaha. It’s practically non existent when your plane arrives after 8:30 pm.
In the interest of full disclosure, the pizzas at Famous Famiglia run $185 a slice/$740 per whole pie. At today’s exchange rate that’s $11 per slice and $43 dollars per pie. It is literally impossible to pay even half that much for pizzas anywhere else in town. Most go for about $2 dollars a slice and $12 per whole pie. Much less is you are a fan of Dominoes, Little Caesar’s or Pizza Hut.

[Bearcat06]

I’m flying through the PVR aeropuerto again today. It has 20 gates, and is a hub for no airlines (sound familiar?). Yet it has added yet another Starbucks with general public access, has too many bars to count, has about a half dozen franchise restaurants (Sbarro, Subway, Bubba Gump, Famous Famiglia, Johnny Rockets, Carl’s Jr., Subway and now a Guy Fieri bar and restaurant), plus some local spots. Add to that maybe 30 other shops selling items other than food.
One really must ask why the food selection is so abysmal in Omaha. It’s practically non existent when your plane arrives after 8:30 pm.
In the interest of full disclosure, the pizzas at Famous Famiglia run $185 a slice/$740 per whole pie. At today’s exchange rate that’s $11 per slice and $43 dollars per pie. It is literally impossible to pay even half that much for pizzas anywhere else in town. Most go for about $2 dollars a slice and $12 per whole pie. Much less is you are a fan of Dominoes, Little Caesar’s or Pizza Hut.

It's been about 5 years since I've been through PVR, but I remember it making OMA look silly. I'm not sure if the city of Puerto Vallarta or their state funnels money to the airport (one would guess they do as they are the first thing everyone sees when arriving) but they have a damn fine airport.

Regarding OMA after 8:30pm, I think the last departure is usually around 8ish and then it's just all arrivals from 9pm through midnight. Not saying that some people might not stop for a bite to eat, but I would think most locals just want to grab their luggage and head home. Also, there are about a million better restaurants on my way to West Omaha versus a Godfathers grab and go or Kracky McKrackens, which is usually a hard pass for me.

I would also venture to say many of PVRs departures are international travel so many travelers are arriving 2-3 hours early and have time to spare. OMA, despite a recent reddit thread complaining about TSA, is usually fairly quick to get through to your gate, so many people I know arrive an hour or less before their flight leaves.

[Dusty]

I just flew into Omaha from Sanford, FL via Alegiant. Pretty packed plane. Maybe 2 or 3 empty seats. Good size plane too. 3 rows of seats on both sides of the aisle.

Also, Alegiant just added non stop flights Omaha to Austin, TX for super cheap rates.

[Mr.Nuke]

As always, we don't know much.

On this I agree. I don’t think anyone should be drawing many conclusions about how the actual terminal drive is going to be set up based on renderings for the canopy, especially when they have a disclaimer on the website telling us not to.

It's not about the exact spot. On the south end the signs say Security, on the north they say Baggage Claim.

Again though, like I’ve said several times, you aren’t comparing like spots. So yeah it does sort of become about the exact spot…

I was looking at the pictures of the canopy and noticed something. The south end of the terminal is shown glassed in with escalators as you walk in. Also the signage on the south end of the drive say Security. So south end is for departures and the north end is for arrivals. No upper and lower roads.

Here’s the thing again. These aren’t the same spot! The rendering image is from almost dead center on the terminal drive, you google street image view is from the South end of the terminal as you note.

How can I tell? Several ways 1) Your google street view image shows both elevated walkways from the original garage to the terminal. The conceptual rendering you showed only shows one. 2) The conceptual rendering is labeled door #3, a door that exists presently (see below) in the center of the terminal. 3) the Shape in the rendering of door #3 as well as the dual escalators there in the rendering correspond to the top down plans we’ve been seeing minor variations of for several years.

Of the renderings from the terminal drive we do have one that corresponds to your street view very well. Here are the more appropriate comparisons.






Direct links to the high-resolution versions as the forum downsized the renderings when I initially posted them several weeks ago.
https://www.buildoma.com/wp-content/upl ... 3-Logo.jpg
https://www.buildoma.com/wp-content/upl ... 1-Logo.jpg

When you view it in that framework like I’ve been saying I come up with a very different conclusion than yours. What you are calling the South end of the terminal isn’t the south end of the terminal. It is dead central. The south end of the terminal actually Starts with a label of Security checkpoint, baggage claim, security checkpoint, and again baggage claim. Not this….

Also the signage on the south end of the drive say Security. So south end is for departures and the north end is for arrivals.

Then on the center of the terminal image that you were describing as the Southern side of the terminal, yeah it does go from the centralized security checkpoint to several signs for “baggage claim” but the one right before the final elevated walkway from the garage it is hard to read, but it clearly isn’t baggage claim or security checkpoint. I think it might say airlines. Again implying that there isn’t a straight Departure/arrival split.

[Mr.Nuke]

but it makes sense to try to split the traffic.

It does, but it needs to be done in a way that makes sense for the interior design of the airport. A straight arrival/departure split on a single road doesn’t make a lot of sense for the interior top-down renderings. And again, if these exterior renderings have any degree of accuracy, it doesn’t appear they’re doing that either.


I think and from the renderings you are basically going to end up with something similar to the existing flow with a slight improvement that I'll describe below.

As you can see from the renderings, Doors 1 and 5 have little utility in this design for the ground level. Door 5 is directly in front of the FIS (which is likely going to be seldom used) Door 1 is in front of OAA office space. Both of these doors however are very close to the existing escalators which do give you good access to the outer ticketing counters on the second level. I.e. At these doors I wouldn't be labeling it as security checkpoint like the renderings it should probably be specific airlines much as it is presently at Eppley.

Doors 2, 3, and 4 have very good access to baggage claim and for sure on 2 and 4 probably should be labeled as such. And you see that to an extent on the renderings. The one that is looking towards door 4 from door 3 is what read to your North/South split conclusion.

3 is the interesting one. This is the door again that you noted in your post with the dual escalators. This door is also completely wasted at Eppley right now as there is nothing there when you walk in and you need to either walk to the North or South depending on your airline for ticketing/security/baggage claims.

In the new terminal this is going to be a prime door. You've got the escalators to the upper level, putting you right at the security lines if you are checked in and without bags or right near the near side ticketing lines on either side of the security checkpoint as we well as right on top of several of the baggage claims on the lower level. I think having this door serve a functional purpose is going to help with near-term traffic flow right away.

[Bob from Omaha]

June stats are out. Month up 12.5% Year up 14% Maybe PDEWs are increasing? Have to ask

Maybe OMA could close out the year over 5M

[Louie]

June stats are out. Month up 12.5% Year up 14% Maybe PDEWs are increasing? Have to ask

Maybe OMA could close out the year over 5M

I'm sure this has been asked but what was the all-time high? (assuming it was in 2019)

[Mr.Nuke]

June stats are out. Month up 12.5% Year up 14%

Overall looks good to me.
https://www.flyoma.com/wp-content/uploa ... istics.pdf

Maybe PDEWs are increasing? Have to ask

I'm sure this has been asked but what was the all-time high? (assuming it was in 2019)

2018 at 5,043,194.

[Louie]

June stats are out. Month up 12.5% Year up 14%

Overall looks good to me.
https://www.flyoma.com/wp-content/uploa ... istics.pdf

Maybe PDEWs are increasing? Have to ask

I'm sure this has been asked but what was the all-time high? (assuming it was in 2019)

2018 at 5,043,194.

Huh, I wonder why it dropped in 2019.

[Mr.Nuke]

Huh, I wonder why it dropped in 2019.

It didn't drop by much (less than 0.5%), but the previous three years Eppley had ridiculous growth that was bound to level off at some point.

[Bob from Omaha]

Huh, I wonder why it dropped in 2019.

It didn't drop by much (less than 0.5%), but the previous three years Eppley had ridiculous growth that was bound to level off at some point.

What brought on the growth the previous three years?

[almighty_tuna]

Next project has been announced: A new $92M central utility plant. Starts early 2024, completes 2025.

https://www.wowt.com/2023/07/21/new-cen ... -airfield/

[Mr.Nuke]

Huh, I wonder why it dropped in 2019.

It didn't drop by much (less than 0.5%), but the previous three years Eppley had ridiculous growth that was bound to level off at some point.

What brought on the growth the previous three years?

Presumably demand with ample supply.

[nativeomahan]

Not sure where to put this little bit of airline travel news. I just read where México is seeing explosive growth in air travel, primarily domestic related, in 2023. The six largest travel destinations are investing the equivalent of more that a billion dollars in airport improvements. Mexico City is building a completely new airport, which will open early next year with a capacity of 20,000,000 passengers and growth capability to 80,000,000 annually. My home city is spending hundreds of millions of dollars on a new international terminal that will more than double the existing airport capacity, to 12,000,000 per year. Not bad for a metro of less than 350,000 people.
Also of note from the story, published on the Méxiconewsdaily.com web site, was the surprising (to me, anyway) statistic that there are, on average, nearly 750 daily flights scheduled between México and the US. Clearly México is the #1 international travel destination from the US.
Too bad not one of those 750 daily flights originates from Eppley. We always have other Omaha passengers on our flights to Mexico.

[Bob from Omaha]

Huh, I wonder why it dropped in 2019.

It didn't drop by much (less than 0.5%), but the previous three years Eppley had ridiculous growth that was bound to level off at some point.

What brought on the growth the previous three years?

Presumably demand with ample supply.

Or perhaps supply caught up with demand and had covid not hit perhaps supply would have continued to keep up with demand. But hey, who am I to guess? On the other hand, success breeds success.

[thenewguy]

I wish the rendering was higher resolution so you could zoom in more. Obviously you can kind of tell what stuff is, but I'd like to see it in a larger format.

Have they officially broken ground on the canopy project yet? I haven't been down that way for a long time, but this is one of the more exciting projects to get underway in Omaha

[Dusty]

Have they officially broken ground on the canopy project yet? I haven't been down that way for a long time, but this is one of the more exciting projects to get underway in Omaha

I just flew out of Omaha 2 days ago. Nothing going on for the canopy project. Drop off zone looked exactly the same.

[Mr.Nuke]

I wish the rendering was higher resolution so you could zoom in more. Obviously you can kind of tell what stuff is, but I'd like to see it in a larger format.

The top down ones? If so pages 10 and 11 here should be of some interest.

https://www.flyoma.com/wp-content/uploa ... _final.pdf

[TransitOriented]

The more I look at this, the more it looks acceptable to me. Does it look exciting and cool? No. Will it look okay? Yeah.





I think if we threw up a facade on the garage opposite the new glass facade on the terminal it would look better. Here's KC's new garage.

[Bob from Omaha]

I think OMA should do this. Think Vegas!

[Dusty]

Not the eyeball terminal. LOL!
So are they going to remove some the tan brick to make this glass front? It does look better than what it is now.

Side note: I wish they would put some skylights on the second floor. The ceiling seems so short. Opening up the ceiling more would make it feel bigger.

[thenewguy]

I wish the rendering was higher resolution so you could zoom in more. Obviously you can kind of tell what stuff is, but I'd like to see it in a larger format.

The top down ones? If so pages 10 and 11 here should be of some interest.

https://www.flyoma.com/wp-content/uploa ... _final.pdf

yeah, kinda. though it kind of looks like it was shrunk down and isn't able to be expanded to its original size without some stuff being blurry.

[thenewguy]

I think OMA should do this. Think Vegas!

that's unique but it's also creepy as h ell. I mean I do think a facade similar to KC would be nice

[Mr.Nuke]

yeah, kinda. though it kind of looks like it was shrunk down and isn't able to be expanded to its original size without some stuff being blurry.

You probably aren't going to get anything better than that. FWIW on my desktop computer I don't have a problem telling what anything else between zooming in and or the key.

[thenewguy]

yeah, kinda. though it kind of looks like it was shrunk down and isn't able to be expanded to its original size without some stuff being blurry.

You probably aren't going to get anything better than that. FWIW on my desktop computer I don't have a problem telling what anything else between zooming in and or the key.

I think it had something to do with an antiquated monitor. I swapped it for a better one and it's easier to see. Thanks!

[Renovator2559]

The more I look at this, the more it looks acceptable to me. Does it look exciting and cool? No. Will it look okay? Yeah.





I think if we threw up a facade on the garage opposite the new glass facade on the terminal it would look better. Here's KC's new garage.

I agree that a glass facade would be better, but KC tax payers will pay through the nose for the $1.5B for 35 years! What an unfortunate circumstance the old KC was, the TSA killed its cutting edge design at the time.

Unlike KC, Eppley is managed directly from its own authority and not the city.
By the city not having to use tax payer dollars and going overboard in airport building, I am sure Omaha can have better use of tax payer dollars in other projects like continuing the path in building a strong urban core.

[Ryan Air]

The more I look at this, the more it looks acceptable to me. Does it look exciting and cool? No. Will it look okay? Yeah.





I think if we threw up a facade on the garage opposite the new glass facade on the terminal it would look better. Here's KC's new garage.

I still don’t like it. Every time I look at it I find another reason. More recently I don’t like it because: … it doesn’t go all the way up to the top of the garage. A cool slant or curve would have been better. … I don’t like that it doesn’t seem to be continuous, like it’s in sections. And there should be a separation of arrivals and departures, ticketing and baggage claim. Still stupid. Still going to bite them in the backside. “sure ma’am in a wheel chair, just park along somewhere in these 6 lanes, find your closest door. You’ll need to go upstairs for ticketing- don’t easily follow folks to the escalator- you’ll need and elevator. Don’t complain, ma’am, other airports are like this sometimes. If you were at Midway, you’d need an elevator after checking-in to go to the gates on the mezzanine level. In Omaha, accommodation and design is too expensive- apparently we get what we get and we don’t pitch a fit.”

[Renovator2559]

I still don’t like it. Every time I look at it I find another reason. More recently I don’t like it because: … it doesn’t go all the way up to the top of the garage. A cool slant or curve would have been better. … I don’t like that it doesn’t seem to be continuous, like it’s in sections. And there should be a separation of arrivals and departures, ticketing and baggage claim. Still stupid. Still going to bite them in the backside. “sure ma’am in a wheel chair, just park along somewhere in these 6 lanes, find your closest door. You’ll need to go upstairs for ticketing- don’t easily follow folks to the escalator- you’ll need and elevator. Don’t complain, ma’am, other airports are like this sometimes. If you were at Midway, you’d need an elevator after checking-in to go to the gates on the mezzanine level. In Omaha, accommodation and design is too expensive- apparently we get what we get and we don’t pitch a fit.”

Although these ideas are nice to have for Eppley upgrades, the cost would skyrocket. The city does not manage the airport but the authority does. Do we really want to follow the path of KC, of the city managing the airport, in which tax payers are stuck paying for an over the top airport?

Isn't it better to invest tax payer funds improving services in the city or other projects, instead of following KC?

Also the upper and lower departures, is I'm sure costly and has its own downsides, like aesthetics too and lighting challenges.